Foreign troops failed to quell CAR crisis: Expert

Press TV has interviewed Assed Baig, a freelance journalist from Birmingham, to discuss the situation in the Central African Republic.

What follows is a rough transcription of the interview.

Press TV: Do you think that what is taking place in the Central African Republic can be called genocide?

Baig: Yes, I think it can. I think that if you look at the criteria for genocide, the mass murders, the forced displacement of a specific group or a religious group or an ethnic group, you can look at what’s taking place and easily say that it’s ethnic cleansing. You know, the United Nations has warned of this. Amnesty International are calling it ethnic cleansing. So I think by those criteria, if you look at it from that perspective, then it is ethnic cleansing.

Press TV: Do you think that it has helped to have the African Union soldiers on the ground? We have reports that various soldiers from various countries have basically almost participated or basically turned the other way when these people have been killed. Your take on the role of these countries there, do you think it’s positive or not?

Baig: Just to put some context to this, I was there reporting more or less at the outbreak of the violence in December and I returned in the New Year to the UK. I think that it’s difficult to say whether it’s made things worse or better, but what I can tell you is what was happening when I was there. For example, the French troops would stop Muslims in the street and even if they were carrying knives they would disarm them. Just because you’re carrying a knife in the Central African Republic doesn’t make you anti-Balaka or Seleka.

What they would do was leave those individuals at the point of where they disarmed them, and they would stand by and just watch, maybe because their orders didn’t come through or maybe they didn’t know what to do, as this individual was lynched by a mob. It didn’t take a genius to see that if, for example, you had disarmed somebody, take them five kilometers down the road and leave them there or, you know, leave them in an area where they are safe, you saved somebody’s life. Actions like this reinforce perceptions that the French were only there to disarm the Seleka or they were helping the anti-Balaka.

Also within the MISCA troops, the African peacekeeping troops, for example the Chadians were seen by the Christian population as being allied to the Muslims or to the Seleka. Even on one occasion, I saw the Chadians open fire on one of the demonstrations and killed one person and injured another.

There’s all these different kind of practices taking place. I’m not sure whether it’s made it better or whether it’s made it worse, but I think that there’s a lot more things that could have been done.

One thing is for certain, the presence of troops have not stopped the civilian Muslim population from being targeted, from being killed and from being driven out. In that sense, yes, they have made it worse at least for the minority Muslim population.

Press TV: Does it appear, for example when a lot of times when we’re looking at African countries or sometimes when we go back to Bosnia in the 90s looking at a majority Muslim country, we see a very slow pace, basically, the international community is getting involved.

However, if we go back to 9/11, 2001, we saw the attacks take place in September and the so-called international troops were there in October, what’s the difference?

Baig: There’s a number of things I just wanted to pick up on that question and some of the comments previously. In terms of the revenge attacks, if these were revenge attacks taking place by anti-Balaka against the Seleka then that would be understandable.

But that’s not what’s taking place. What’s taking place is the anti-Balaka are not only targeting the Seleka, they’re targeting the Muslim population as a whole. It’s not only the anti-Balaka that are doing this. You’ve got normal citizens and mobs going around and attacking Muslim places of worship, destroying mosques, desecrating Qurans and forcing Muslims out and murdering them. That’s the first point I wanted to make.

In terms of the international community responding, well I think you have a point. When you look at Libya, or when you look at Afghanistan, or you look at Iraq, the political will is there. The West can mobilize troops very quickly and have them across the other side of the world in a matter of a month or a week. But I think it’s about political will.

I think the main interested party there is France. It all becomes territorial. Central African Republic has lots of wealth, lots of mineral wealth and uranium, so they had the political will to deploy very quickly.

However, the international community on the other hand, some other countries, well what’s in it for them? That’s why you’ll see them dragging their feet.

Press TV: Let me get you back in there, you seem to want to comment [on previous guest speaker’s reply].

Baig: I’m sorry, I wrote an article about Mali which I entitled that France’s involvement in Mali has nothing to do with fighting extremists, because if they were really interested in fighting extremists then they wouldn’t have supported some of those extremists in Libya, and they wouldn’t be supporting some of those extremists in Syria.

If it is actually about taking on the jihadists then no, I’m sorry, the West picks and chooses which jihadists they support and which jihadists they are against.

Yes, Mali did have a lot to do with minerals and resources. I’m not saying that this is the only objective of France but let’s face it, the French public have 20 percent lower energy bills than anybody else in Europe and the fact of that is that they have so many nuclear power stations. To keep those nuclear power stations running, you need a good supply of uranium, and it’s just about taking care of their interests and making sure that they have energy security. Again, I’m being very clear here that I’m not saying that this is the only factor. I think it is one of the factors amongst some others. If you go to the streets of the Central African Republic and Muslim areas, you will hear the Muslims saying that France has not been disarming the anti-Balaka. When I was there I did not see the French disarming the anti-Balaka, only disarming Muslims.

However, I have had reports from other colleagues that recently they have been taking on the anti-Balaka because they have been destabilizing the country.

Press TV: Your take, same question: what needs to be done?

Baig: I think that there needs to be support for civil society and civil institutions within the Central African Republic. The goals to how many troops you put on the ground is not going to create the courts, the rule of law. It’s not going to create jails. And we need to train up the police. The country needs to have some sort of infrastructure. That’s the first thing.

I think secondly that the minority community needs to be supported. The exodus of Muslims that’s taking place currently in the Central African Republic is on a historical proportion. It’s astounding how many are leaving, that in Chad, Cameroon there’s refugee camps there. I think that the minorities need to feel safe.

Remember, that people talk about democracy, and democracy is the voice of the majority. Democracy is also about ensuring the representation of the minority. We need the communities that can live side by side. It’s going to take time but that needs to be represented in terms of conflict resolution.